Post by ~*Squirrelpaw*~ on Mar 11, 2009 13:14:52 GMT -5
The theory is that Jaypaw and Hollypaw are actually Leafpool’s kits rather than Squirrelflight’s. What's your opinion on this?
Personally, I strongly believe that both of them are Leafpool’s kits, and I think this theory will be revealed as true before the end of TPoT. Here's all the evidence I've gathered, along with the most common arguments against the theory and my rebuttal for each argument. I do have some evidence from the latest TPoT book listed in each section, so proceed at your own risk if you have not finished the newest book.
Evidence list compiled and typed by Squirrelpaw. Please don’t copy and repost this list word-for-word on another website without my permission.
A huge thanks to everyone who helped out by contributing quotes and hints.
Section I: Evidence that Leafpool had Kits[/b]
1A. This quote in Sunset is really interesting to me.
From Sunset, page 102-
I haven’t really seen anything in Leafpool that makes her a unique or unusual medicine cat. I think Yellowfang is referring to Leafpool being pregnant. Medicine cats are forbidden to have kits, so I would imagine there have only been a handful who did so, hence Leafpool being told she would tread a path that few other medicine cats had.
1B: It’s mentioned in Sunset that Leafpool, a very slender cat, has grown plump.
From Sunset, page 285-
It seems odd to me that Leafpool is mentioned specifically, when every cat is well-fed and there are several other slender cats in the Clan. Her plumpness could just be because food is plentiful and she's been eating more, but it could be foreshadowing her having kits. If she were only carrying one or two kits, she wouldn't get very big, and wouldn't have looked obviously pregnant at first glance.
1C. In The Sight, there's a passage where Jaypaw says he dreams about traveling through snow as a small kit.
From The Sight, page 190-
I don't see any reason for Leafpool to be tense when talking about Squirrelflight's kitting circumstances, unless the reason Squirrelflight was outside the hollow had something to do with Leafpool being the mother of some of the kits. It also seems strange that Leafpool hesitates when mentioning Jaypaw's mother, and that she doesn't call Squirrelflight by name.
According to this quote from one of the Erin Hunter chats at Wands&Worlds, the fact that Squirrelflight's kits were born outside the hollow will be very important later on in TPoT.
If the theory is true, Leafpool likely left the camp when her kits were about to arrive. I’m thinking that when Leafpool started kitting, Squirrelflight felt the pain her sister was in and went looking for her, hence her being outside the camp in the middle of winter. I also think that Leafpool’s pain from kitting triggered Squirrelflight to go into labor at about the same time. That would explain Squirrelflight having to wait until the kits were all strong enough to travel; she had to wait for her own kits to come.
I can’t think of any other reason why Squirrelflight would be outside the camp when she kitted. I know she’s not the type to stay in the nursery, but even if she had just gone off on her own, the fact that her kits were born outside wouldn’t be that important.
1D. This quote from Dark River mentions that Leafpool has some closely guarded secrets, ones that Jaypaw has never been able to see.
From Dark River, page 53-
If she were Jaypaw and Hollypaw’s mother, that would be a very closely-guarded secret.
1F. In this quote from Dark River, Leafpool says something to Crowfeather that I found quite interesting.
From Dark River, page 271-
I think, if the theory is proven true, that she is talking about the events of the We Need to Talk play. If she were trying to tell Crowfeather that she had his kits, she could have interpreted his ignoring her as hiding from his responsibilities.
1E. This quote from Outcast shows Hollypaw asking Squirrelflight how she managed to be a mother and a warrior.
From Outcast, page 33-
Squirrelflight seems very suspicious of Hollypaw’s question, which is quite an odd reaction. I don’t see why she would be suspicious of a simple question, unless she was worried that Hollypaw had guessed the truth.
1F. The prologue of Eclipse shows a conversation between several StarClan cats. The conversation turns to Jaypaw, Hollypaw, and Lionpaw, and indicates that StarClan has been hiding something from them. I don’t think they’re talking about the powers or the prophecy, because those things haven’t really been hidden.
From Eclipse, page 3-
Yellowfang's comment about "lives begun in deception" is extremely interesting to me. I don't see any reason why the kits would have begun their lives in deception, unless Yellowfang is referring to them being deceived about who their parents are.
Further on in the same passage, there’s this:
Perhaps he's referring to Squirrelflight lying and saying all three of the kits are hers?
And later:
Yellowfang obviously disagrees with Bluestar saying that the kits shouldn't feel any responsibility toward the other Clans. Perhaps she thinks that Leafpool's kits should feel some connection with WindClan.
I also find Bluestar's insistence that the kits be loyal to ThunderClan alone very interesting. If one or more of the three is Leafpool’s, the situation is similar to what happened with Bluestar's kits. Mistyfoot and Stonefur were raised as loyal RiverClan cats, and Bluestar never told them the truth because she didn't want them to have mixed loyalties. She could want the same for Leafpool’s kits.
1G. In Eclipse, when Leafpool is talking with Jaypaw about what the Tribe was like, she mentions that "great knowledge can be lonely". Jaypaw thinks she is talking about the prophecy, and attempts to read her thoughts, but is able to sense only wistfulness. Here is the passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 57-
I think that when Leafpool says "great knowledge can be lonely", she is referring to her being Jaypaw and Hollypaw's mother. That would probably be something she would consider "great knowledge", and I'm sure she'd be lonely knowing that she can't share her secret with anyone. The wistfulness Jaypaw senses could be Leafpool thinking about what it would be like if she could tell the secret.
1H. When Millie's kits are born, Jaypaw notices that Leafpool seems sad after she finishes helping Millie. He wonders if maybe Leafpool is envious of Millie, and if she ever wished she could have kits of her own.
Here's the full passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 158-
Why would Leafpool seem sad over something as happy as new kits being born? Maybe her sadness is because she is thinking about her own kits.
The part about "perhaps she was envious of the way the tiny kits knew instantly who their mother was" is also interesting. The way it's worded kind of indicates that Leafpool has kits, kits who don't know she is their mother.
1I. In Long Shadows, there is a scene where Spiderleg and Daisy get into an argument over their kits. After the argument, Leafpool tells Spiderleg that “kits are a precious gift”, and that being a parent is “even better than being a mentor”. Here is the passage from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 235-
How would she know that being a parent is better than being a mentor, unless she had kits herself?
1J. Soon after Squirrelflight reveals her secret to Ashfur, there is a scene with Jayfeather and Leafpool sorting herbs. Leafpool acts very distracted, to the point where she's confusing one herb with another. Here's the passage from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 298-
She's a skilled medicine cat; there's no reason for her to be confusing herbs like a new apprentice. I think the reason she's so distracted is because she knows that her secret has been partially revealed to her kits. She knows Jayfeather's abilities, and she may be worrying that he will figure it out and confront her.
1K. There are some things in both Leafpool and Squirrelflight’s Cats of the Clans profiles that I found very interesting. Vicky said in one of the recent Erin Hunter chats that she did add in some hints for things to come in TPoT when she wrote CotC, so I think these are something to consider.
First, this one from Leafpool’s profile.
From Leafpool's profile, CotC page 18-
The part about the aftereffects of the Leaf/Crow relationship is especially interesting. It's over between them. How would the fact that they fell in love color the future of the Clans, especially if nothing happened other than their running away together and returning the next day? That could be hinting that Leafpool had Crowfeather’s kits.
Next, there’s this one from Squirrelflight’s profile.
From Squirrelflight's profile, CotC page 20-
So Squirrelflight has secrets. I can't think of anything in TNP that would need to be a secret, and a large portion of that series was from Squirrelflight's viewpoint. Maybe one of her secrets is the fact that she raised her sister's kits.
And finally, this one, from further on in Squirrelflight’s profile.
From Squirrelflight's profile, CotC page 20-
From what we've seen in the books, Squirrelflight loves her kits, but she doesn't really seem devoted to them. “Devoted”, in my opinion, would be more like Ferncloud, always worrying about the kits even after they’ve left the nursery. Could Rock be referring to her devotion to Leafpool and to keeping her sister's secret?
1L. There is a play script that was written by Vicky for the Erin Hunter tours in the spring of 2007. The play is titled After Sunset: We Need to Talk. Here’s a download link, if anyone would like to read it.
The script shows Leafpool meeting Crowfeather and trying to tell him something. She wants to speak directly to Crowfeather, which is what makes me think that she wants to tell him that she had his kits.
The script link was sent out through AuthorTracker emails, along with this message:
There's also this note, on the page where you can download the script from the official Warriors website.
Both the AuthorTracker message and the note on the download page indicate that there's more going on in the script than meets the eye, and both say that there's clues to what's going to happen in Power of Three. I also find the play's title interesting, as it indicates there's more to the Leafpool/Crowfeather relationship than we know.
1M. This is not actual evidence from the books themselves, but whenever the Erins are asked about the rumors that Leafpool is the mother of one or more of the Three, their reply is always something along the lines of “I can’t possibly tell you that without revealing too much of what’s to come in TPoT.”’
It seems to me that, if there were no truth at all to the rumors and speculations that Leafpool had kits, the Erins would shoot down the idea right away, as they have done with other theories. I remember someone asking Vicky if Violet (Barley’s sister, mentioned in SotC) was Firestar’s mother. She immediately shot down the idea, saying it was an interesting idea but that there was no relation between Firestar and Violet. Why not do the same for this theory if there’s no truth to it?
From Sunset, page 102-
"Do you have a sign for me?" she asked, giving all her attention to the three StarClan warriors.
"Not exactly," meowed Bluestar. "But we wanted to tell you that the path of your life will twist in ways yet hidden from you."
"Yes." Yellowfang's voice was dry, with an edge to it that made Leafpool almost certain the old medicine cat knew something she wasn't telling. "You will tread a path that few medicine cats have walked before you."
I haven’t really seen anything in Leafpool that makes her a unique or unusual medicine cat. I think Yellowfang is referring to Leafpool being pregnant. Medicine cats are forbidden to have kits, so I would imagine there have only been a handful who did so, hence Leafpool being told she would tread a path that few other medicine cats had.
1B: It’s mentioned in Sunset that Leafpool, a very slender cat, has grown plump.
From Sunset, page 285-
Every cat looked sleek and well-fed; even slender Leafpool had grown quite plump.
It seems odd to me that Leafpool is mentioned specifically, when every cat is well-fed and there are several other slender cats in the Clan. Her plumpness could just be because food is plentiful and she's been eating more, but it could be foreshadowing her having kits. If she were only carrying one or two kits, she wouldn't get very big, and wouldn't have looked obviously pregnant at first glance.
1C. In The Sight, there's a passage where Jaypaw says he dreams about traveling through snow as a small kit.
From The Sight, page 190-
"Sometimes I dream about when I was very small, traveling through snow," he confessed. "Is that right? That wasn't the Great Journey, was it?"
Tension crackled through Leafpool's fur. "No, the Great Journey was long before you were born. But your... your mother did make a long journey with you through the snow when you were very small. You were born outside the hollow, and she had to wait until you were all strong enough to travel."
I don't see any reason for Leafpool to be tense when talking about Squirrelflight's kitting circumstances, unless the reason Squirrelflight was outside the hollow had something to do with Leafpool being the mother of some of the kits. It also seems strange that Leafpool hesitates when mentioning Jaypaw's mother, and that she doesn't call Squirrelflight by name.
According to this quote from one of the Erin Hunter chats at Wands&Worlds, the fact that Squirrelflight's kits were born outside the hollow will be very important later on in TPoT.
Dovetail(Q): *Why were Jawpaw, Hollypaw, and Loinpaw "born outside the hollow"?
VickyHolmes(A): I don't think I can tell you that. Or I'd have to...I don't know, apologise to Kate and Cherith FOREVER for giving too much away.
If the theory is true, Leafpool likely left the camp when her kits were about to arrive. I’m thinking that when Leafpool started kitting, Squirrelflight felt the pain her sister was in and went looking for her, hence her being outside the camp in the middle of winter. I also think that Leafpool’s pain from kitting triggered Squirrelflight to go into labor at about the same time. That would explain Squirrelflight having to wait until the kits were all strong enough to travel; she had to wait for her own kits to come.
I can’t think of any other reason why Squirrelflight would be outside the camp when she kitted. I know she’s not the type to stay in the nursery, but even if she had just gone off on her own, the fact that her kits were born outside wouldn’t be that important.
1D. This quote from Dark River mentions that Leafpool has some closely guarded secrets, ones that Jaypaw has never been able to see.
From Dark River, page 53-
Why was Leafpool so fond of secrets? Secrets about his gift, secrets about Mothwing and StarClan. He suspected there were even more secrets buried in his mentor's heart, secrets that she guarded so closely he had never been able to glimpse them.
If she were Jaypaw and Hollypaw’s mother, that would be a very closely-guarded secret.
1F. In this quote from Dark River, Leafpool says something to Crowfeather that I found quite interesting.
From Dark River, page 271-
Anger surged through Leafpool; Jaypaw felt it hot against his pelt. "Not every cat hides from his responsibilities!" she hissed.
Crowfeather halted. "Are you saying that's what I would do?"
I think, if the theory is proven true, that she is talking about the events of the We Need to Talk play. If she were trying to tell Crowfeather that she had his kits, she could have interpreted his ignoring her as hiding from his responsibilities.
1E. This quote from Outcast shows Hollypaw asking Squirrelflight how she managed to be a mother and a warrior.
From Outcast, page 33-
Hollypaw bounded over to her. "Squirrelflight, can I ask you something?"
Her mother's ears twitched. "Sure."
"You had kits," Hollypaw meowed, "But you manage to be a warrior as well, how do you do it?"
Squirrelflight narrowed her eyes and for a moment, Hollypaw thought she saw something flash in her green depths, some emotion she couldn't understand. But her mother's voice was even when she replied, "Why would you want to know that?"
Squirrelflight seems very suspicious of Hollypaw’s question, which is quite an odd reaction. I don’t see why she would be suspicious of a simple question, unless she was worried that Hollypaw had guessed the truth.
1F. The prologue of Eclipse shows a conversation between several StarClan cats. The conversation turns to Jaypaw, Hollypaw, and Lionpaw, and indicates that StarClan has been hiding something from them. I don’t think they’re talking about the powers or the prophecy, because those things haven’t really been hidden.
From Eclipse, page 3-
"That's true." Yellowfang stared at her paws and added quietly, "But there's still so much they don't know."
"They're still very young," Bluestar warned.
Yellowfang looked up. "That doesn't mean we have to deceive them."
"Do you think it would help if they knew everything?" Bluestar countered.
Yellowfang's shoulders stiffened. "Lives begun in deception are always lived in shadow."
Yellowfang's comment about "lives begun in deception" is extremely interesting to me. I don't see any reason why the kits would have begun their lives in deception, unless Yellowfang is referring to them being deceived about who their parents are.
Further on in the same passage, there’s this:
"It wasn't us who lied to them in the first place," Whitestorm reminded her.
Perhaps he's referring to Squirrelflight lying and saying all three of the kits are hers?
And later:
Spottedleaf brushed her tail along Yellowfang's flank. "You know we had nothing to do with that," she soothed. "We just have to hope they use their powers wisely, for the good of ThunderClan."
"Just ThunderClan?" Whitestorm looked thoughtful. "If their powers are so great, shouldn't they be used to help all the Clans?"
Bluestar widened her eyes. "These kits were born into ThunderClan! They have been raised as loyal ThunderClan warriors. Why should they feel responsibility toward any other Clan?"
Yellowfang narrowed her eyes at the old ThunderClan leader, but said nothing.
Yellowfang obviously disagrees with Bluestar saying that the kits shouldn't feel any responsibility toward the other Clans. Perhaps she thinks that Leafpool's kits should feel some connection with WindClan.
I also find Bluestar's insistence that the kits be loyal to ThunderClan alone very interesting. If one or more of the three is Leafpool’s, the situation is similar to what happened with Bluestar's kits. Mistyfoot and Stonefur were raised as loyal RiverClan cats, and Bluestar never told them the truth because she didn't want them to have mixed loyalties. She could want the same for Leafpool’s kits.
1G. In Eclipse, when Leafpool is talking with Jaypaw about what the Tribe was like, she mentions that "great knowledge can be lonely". Jaypaw thinks she is talking about the prophecy, and attempts to read her thoughts, but is able to sense only wistfulness. Here is the passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 57-
She began rolling the coltsfoot again. "Great knowledge can be lonely."
Jaypaw's heart lurched. Does she mean the prophecy? Does she know? She can't! She would have said something. His heart began to slow as he reassured himself that Leafpool would never be able to ignore a secret like that. Nevertheless, he tried to search her thoughts for some clue. The usual fog barred his way. He could sense only wistfulness engulfing her like a cloud. She might not know about the prophecy, but something was troubling her.
I think that when Leafpool says "great knowledge can be lonely", she is referring to her being Jaypaw and Hollypaw's mother. That would probably be something she would consider "great knowledge", and I'm sure she'd be lonely knowing that she can't share her secret with anyone. The wistfulness Jaypaw senses could be Leafpool thinking about what it would be like if she could tell the secret.
1H. When Millie's kits are born, Jaypaw notices that Leafpool seems sad after she finishes helping Millie. He wonders if maybe Leafpool is envious of Millie, and if she ever wished she could have kits of her own.
Here's the full passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 158-
"You did well." Leafpool brushed her muzzle against his cheek as if she could tell how he felt inside..
"Thanks." Jaypaw licked her ear. Their quarrel was a long way from his mind right now. "That was the most amazing thing ever!"
"Yes, it was," Leafpool murmured.
Was that sadness in her mew? Jaypaw wondered. She certainly didn't seem as elated as he was; his paws felt lighter than the breeze, as if he could fly right out of the hollow and over the trees. Perhaps Leafpool had helped so many cats give birth that it didn't stir her anymore. Or perhaps she was envious of the way the tiny kits knew instantly who their mother was, and loved her from their very first breath. Jaypaw's paw steps slowed as he tried to imagine how Leafpool really felt watching new lives being born. Did she ever feel sorry that she would never have kits of her own?
Why would Leafpool seem sad over something as happy as new kits being born? Maybe her sadness is because she is thinking about her own kits.
The part about "perhaps she was envious of the way the tiny kits knew instantly who their mother was" is also interesting. The way it's worded kind of indicates that Leafpool has kits, kits who don't know she is their mother.
1I. In Long Shadows, there is a scene where Spiderleg and Daisy get into an argument over their kits. After the argument, Leafpool tells Spiderleg that “kits are a precious gift”, and that being a parent is “even better than being a mentor”. Here is the passage from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 235-
”She-cats!” Spiderleg exclaimed.
He turned to leave, but Leafpool slipped past him and blocked his way out. “Kits are a precious gift, Spiderleg,” she mewed quietly. “You should take every chance you can to be a good father. It’s even better than being a mentor.”
How would she know that being a parent is better than being a mentor, unless she had kits herself?
1J. Soon after Squirrelflight reveals her secret to Ashfur, there is a scene with Jayfeather and Leafpool sorting herbs. Leafpool acts very distracted, to the point where she's confusing one herb with another. Here's the passage from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 298-
Jayfeather spent the next morning sorting herbs with Leafpool. His mentor seemed oddly distracted, as if her mind was on something else.
"We need more water mint," she murmured. "We used up so much when the cats were hurt after the storm."
"No, this is water mint." Jayfeather shoved a bunch of it under her nose. "We've plenty of it. It's yarrow we're out of."
"Oh, yes... sorry."
Fed up of trying to work with her if she couldn't tell yarrow from water mint, Jayfeather headed out of the den. "I'll go fetch more," he tossed back over his shoulder.
She's a skilled medicine cat; there's no reason for her to be confusing herbs like a new apprentice. I think the reason she's so distracted is because she knows that her secret has been partially revealed to her kits. She knows Jayfeather's abilities, and she may be worrying that he will figure it out and confront her.
1K. There are some things in both Leafpool and Squirrelflight’s Cats of the Clans profiles that I found very interesting. Vicky said in one of the recent Erin Hunter chats that she did add in some hints for things to come in TPoT when she wrote CotC, so I think these are something to consider.
First, this one from Leafpool’s profile.
From Leafpool's profile, CotC page 18-
But the one thing Leafpool did not foresee was falling in love—and with a WindClan warrior, at that. Yes, Adderkit, I’m sure WindClan warriors are the best warriors of all, but Leafpool was a medicine cat! Everything about their relationship was wrong, according to your warrior code. How could their love lead to anything but misery and ill fortune? Even now it echoes among the Clans, coloring their future in ways not even Leafpool can see.
The part about the aftereffects of the Leaf/Crow relationship is especially interesting. It's over between them. How would the fact that they fell in love color the future of the Clans, especially if nothing happened other than their running away together and returning the next day? That could be hinting that Leafpool had Crowfeather’s kits.
Next, there’s this one from Squirrelflight’s profile.
From Squirrelflight's profile, CotC page 20-
I would trust Squirrelflight with my life, simply because she is incapable of doing anything but what she believes to be right. No, Blossomkit, this is not the same as always telling the truth. Even Squirrelflight has her secrets.
So Squirrelflight has secrets. I can't think of anything in TNP that would need to be a secret, and a large portion of that series was from Squirrelflight's viewpoint. Maybe one of her secrets is the fact that she raised her sister's kits.
And finally, this one, from further on in Squirrelflight’s profile.
From Squirrelflight's profile, CotC page 20-
Squirrelflight is a good mother to Jaypaw, Hollypaw, and Lionpaw. I hope Squirrelflight is well rewarded for her devotion.
From what we've seen in the books, Squirrelflight loves her kits, but she doesn't really seem devoted to them. “Devoted”, in my opinion, would be more like Ferncloud, always worrying about the kits even after they’ve left the nursery. Could Rock be referring to her devotion to Leafpool and to keeping her sister's secret?
1L. There is a play script that was written by Vicky for the Erin Hunter tours in the spring of 2007. The play is titled After Sunset: We Need to Talk. Here’s a download link, if anyone would like to read it.
The script shows Leafpool meeting Crowfeather and trying to tell him something. She wants to speak directly to Crowfeather, which is what makes me think that she wants to tell him that she had his kits.
The script link was sent out through AuthorTracker emails, along with this message:
My spring tour seems a long time ago now, but you may remember from my tour diary that I wrote a ten-minute play called After Sunset: We Need to Talk, which had its World Premiere in the Secret Garden Bookshop in Seattle, WA. This was one of the highlights of my tour, with all the actors putting on Oscar-winning performances! Especially Leafpool, who seemed to understand exactly what she was—and wasn’t—saying. The good news is that if you missed this fabulous performance, you now have the chance to put on one of your own! The lovely folks who manage the Warriors website have agreed to post a link to the play script in its original form. If you look very closely, you might uncover a few secrets about Power of Three.
There's also this note, on the page where you can download the script from the official Warriors website.
As promised, here is your chance to read the play script that I wrote especially for my recent tour. As it turned out, the events were mostly too busy for public performances, but I was thrilled to be part of the world premiere of We Need to Talk on Saturday, April 28, at the Secret Garden bookstore in Seattle, WA. Eight hugely talented fans brought the script to life, and best of all, they seemed to know exactly what was going on. In Warriors, you always need to look for the meaning in between the words that are spoken out loud, and this play is no different. If you look closely enough, you might even spot some important clues to what's going on in Power of Three.
Both the AuthorTracker message and the note on the download page indicate that there's more going on in the script than meets the eye, and both say that there's clues to what's going to happen in Power of Three. I also find the play's title interesting, as it indicates there's more to the Leafpool/Crowfeather relationship than we know.
1M. This is not actual evidence from the books themselves, but whenever the Erins are asked about the rumors that Leafpool is the mother of one or more of the Three, their reply is always something along the lines of “I can’t possibly tell you that without revealing too much of what’s to come in TPoT.”’
It seems to me that, if there were no truth at all to the rumors and speculations that Leafpool had kits, the Erins would shoot down the idea right away, as they have done with other theories. I remember someone asking Vicky if Violet (Barley’s sister, mentioned in SotC) was Firestar’s mother. She immediately shot down the idea, saying it was an interesting idea but that there was no relation between Firestar and Violet. Why not do the same for this theory if there’s no truth to it?
Section II: Evidence that Jaypaw is Leafpool's Kit[/b]
2A. Jaypaw is described as small and fast, both of which are characteristics of WindClan cats. Here are some quotes that mention Jaypaw's size and speed.
From The Sight, page 5-
And a little further down the same page:
2B: Leafpool seems to have her heart set on Jaypaw becoming her apprentice, even before she knows about his special abilities. Possibly because she is his mother and she knows his best chance of becoming an apprentice is to be a medicine cat? This quote seems to indicate that she would prefer to mentor Jaypaw if she has the choice:
From The Sight, page 50-
She also seems sad when Hollypaw becomes her apprentice.
From The Sight, page 88-
Perhaps, as Jaypaw’s mother, she blames herself for his blindness, and she’s worried that he will not be able to handle being a warrior apprentice due to his handicap?
2C. There are a couple of quotes in Outcast, when Jaypaw is getting ready to leave for the mountains, that show Leafpool acting motherly toward him, and she seems to be very worried.
Here are the quotes.
From Outcast, page 147/148-
Could she be on edge because she’s worried about her son going into the mountains? Maybe she’s worried that something will happen to him and she’ll never get to tell him that she is his mother.
From Outcast, page 149-
Here, Jaypaw senses very strong emotions from Leafpool, and she is very tense, especially when Jaypaw asks her if she’s coming out to say goodbye. She’s most likely tense because she doesn’t want to see Crowfeather, but I was thinking it could also be because she’s afraid she’ll spill her secret if she leaves her den.
2D. This quote from Eclipse is interesting. It shows Leafpool deliberately hiding thoughts and memories that relate to her affair with Crowfeather.
From Eclipse, page 121-
Her thoughts are perfectly clear and readable to Jaypaw, until she starts thinking about when she ran away with Crowfeather. I don't see any reason why her running away would be something she'd hide from Jaypaw, unless there was more to it than just running away. Yes, it was a mistake and I'm sure she regrets it, but I can't see that as a reason to hide it. And her saying "it's not fair" for Jaypaw to keep invading her thoughts is also interesting to me. Maybe she thinks it wouldn't be fair for Jaypaw to find out that she is his mother by reading her thoughts.
2E. When Leafpool is about to give Jaypaw his full name in Long Shadows, he is startled by the strength of the love he feels coming from her, and notes that Leafpool’s feelings of love are even stronger than the emotions he felt coming from Half Moon, the ancient cat who was in love with Jay’s Wing.
From Long Shadows, page 252-
The feelings Leafpool shows toward Jaypaw could be just a mentor’s love for her apprentice and pride at that apprentice reaching his goal, but Leafpool’s feelings seem far stronger than anything we’ve seen between a mentor and apprentice. Especially considering that Jaypaw compares Leafpool’s emotions to Half Moon’s. Half Moon was very clearly in love with Jaypaw when he was among the ancient cats masquerading as Jay’s Wing.
It seems like, for there to be that strong a connection between Leafpool and Jaypaw, there would have to be more to their relationship than just mentor and apprentice. Could this be an indicator that she is Jaypaw’s mother?
Further on, it mentions that Leafpool’s voice is “shaking with feeling” as she announces Jaypaw’s full name.
From Long Shadows, page 253-
I don’t recall this much emotion being mentioned when Cinderpelt gave Leafpool her full name. Is this another hint that Leafpool is Jayfeather’s mother?
I also find it very interesting that Leafpool chose “feather” as the last part of Jaypaw’s name. It certainly sounds to me like she’s naming him after Crowfeather, and I can’t see why she’d do that unless she’s naming her son after his father.
It’s also interesting to note that the “feather” name suffix has only been used twice in the main series, for Crowfeather and Owlwhisker. The Erins changed Owlwhisker’s name so that Crowfeather’s would be more unique and meaningful. Why would they use it again, if not to hint at a connection between Jayfeather and Crowfeather?
From The Sight, page 5-
Jaykit wasn't going to let his brother steal the prize from him so easily. He might be the smallest in the litter, but he was fast.
And a little further down the same page:
Jaykit gasped. "Have I hurt them?"
“Of course not," Ferncloud snapped. "You're too small to squash a flea!"
2B: Leafpool seems to have her heart set on Jaypaw becoming her apprentice, even before she knows about his special abilities. Possibly because she is his mother and she knows his best chance of becoming an apprentice is to be a medicine cat? This quote seems to indicate that she would prefer to mentor Jaypaw if she has the choice:
From The Sight, page 50-
Leafpool’s whiskers twitched with amusement as she guessed what Hollykit was trying to ask. "No," she purred. "Once a medicine cat has learned enough, he can take his proper name and assume full responsibilities, even with his mentor still alive."
Hollykit wondered why Leafpool had said he. "Do you have someone in mind already?"
Leafpool flicked the tip of her tail. "I've not decided anything yet."
She also seems sad when Hollypaw becomes her apprentice.
From The Sight, page 88-
"I will teach her everything I know," Leafpool promised. She touched Hollypaw's muzzle with hers, but she didn't meet Hollypaw's eyes; instead, she looked past her, her expression clouded. Surprised, Hollypaw turned and saw that Leafpool was staring at Squirrelflight. She wondered why there was sadness in both cats' eyes.
Perhaps, as Jaypaw’s mother, she blames herself for his blindness, and she’s worried that he will not be able to handle being a warrior apprentice due to his handicap?
2C. There are a couple of quotes in Outcast, when Jaypaw is getting ready to leave for the mountains, that show Leafpool acting motherly toward him, and she seems to be very worried.
Here are the quotes.
From Outcast, page 147/148-
Frustrated, Jaypaw went back to his own den. Leafpool was still there, fiddling with some leaves, though all the traveling herbs had been disturbed now, except for Jaypaw's own.
"What are you doing?" he asked. "Do you want me to take some herbs with me?"
"What?" Leafpool sounded surprised, as if she hadn't realized he had come back. "Oh, no- there's no point in doing that. They'd be a nuisance to carry every day, and you don't know what you'll need."
"But I have no idea which herbs grow in the mountains," Jaypaw objected.
Leafpool scraped the ground with one paw; she was trying to hide it, but Jaypaw could feel she was on the edge for some reason.
Could she be on edge because she’s worried about her son going into the mountains? Maybe she’s worried that something will happen to him and she’ll never get to tell him that she is his mother.
From Outcast, page 149-
"Coming!" Jaypaw called back. He whisked around the bramble screen, then turned back to Leafpool, "Aren't you coming to say good-bye?"
Leafpool let out a long sigh. Tension was crackling off her like a storm in greenleaf. "I-I've said it already," she murmured.
"Okay. Good-bye then." Jaypaw knew he should leave, but something held his paws back. He found Leafpool incredible annoying when she fussed, but he couldn't ignore her feelings of misery, even if he didn't understand them. He darted across to her and buried his nose in the fur on her shoulder.
"Good-bye. I'll have lots to tell you when I get back."
"Good-bye, Jaypaw." Leafpool's voice quivered. He felt her tongue rasp over his ear. "Take care."
"Gotta go," Jaypaw meowed, dashing out past the brambles with a sigh of relief to be away from Leafpool's strange intensity. As he emerged he smelled Squirrelflight's scent and felt her pelt brush his as she slipped into the medicine cat's den to talk to her sister.
I hope she knows what's going on, because I sure don't, Jaypaw thought.
Here, Jaypaw senses very strong emotions from Leafpool, and she is very tense, especially when Jaypaw asks her if she’s coming out to say goodbye. She’s most likely tense because she doesn’t want to see Crowfeather, but I was thinking it could also be because she’s afraid she’ll spill her secret if she leaves her den.
2D. This quote from Eclipse is interesting. It shows Leafpool deliberately hiding thoughts and memories that relate to her affair with Crowfeather.
From Eclipse, page 121-
Even as he spoke, he glimpsed memories flashing through Leafpool's mind; of a badger forcing its way into the nursery and snapping at Cinderpelt as she stood in front of Sorreltail's newborn kits. "You're doing it now!" he accused. "It's not your fault Cinderpelt died."
"But it is!" Leafpool's mew was thick with grief. "If I hadn't left the Clan..."
Fog instantly shrouded her thoughts, shutting Jaypaw out. "You mustn't keep doing that!" she snapped. "It's not fair!"
Her thoughts are perfectly clear and readable to Jaypaw, until she starts thinking about when she ran away with Crowfeather. I don't see any reason why her running away would be something she'd hide from Jaypaw, unless there was more to it than just running away. Yes, it was a mistake and I'm sure she regrets it, but I can't see that as a reason to hide it. And her saying "it's not fair" for Jaypaw to keep invading her thoughts is also interesting to me. Maybe she thinks it wouldn't be fair for Jaypaw to find out that she is his mother by reading her thoughts.
2E. When Leafpool is about to give Jaypaw his full name in Long Shadows, he is startled by the strength of the love he feels coming from her, and notes that Leafpool’s feelings of love are even stronger than the emotions he felt coming from Half Moon, the ancient cat who was in love with Jay’s Wing.
From Long Shadows, page 252-
At last Jaypaw stood in front of his mentor, startled by the depth of the love and pride that flooded out of her. It was even stronger than the emotion he had felt coming from Half Moon. Did he really mean so much to Leafpool?
The feelings Leafpool shows toward Jaypaw could be just a mentor’s love for her apprentice and pride at that apprentice reaching his goal, but Leafpool’s feelings seem far stronger than anything we’ve seen between a mentor and apprentice. Especially considering that Jaypaw compares Leafpool’s emotions to Half Moon’s. Half Moon was very clearly in love with Jaypaw when he was among the ancient cats masquerading as Jay’s Wing.
It seems like, for there to be that strong a connection between Leafpool and Jaypaw, there would have to be more to their relationship than just mentor and apprentice. Could this be an indicator that she is Jaypaw’s mother?
Further on, it mentions that Leafpool’s voice is “shaking with feeling” as she announces Jaypaw’s full name.
From Long Shadows, page 253-
"Jaypaw, from this moment you will be known as Jayfeather." Leafpool's voice shook with feeling. "StarClan honors your skill and your thirst for knowledge. You have saved the lives of many cats."
I don’t recall this much emotion being mentioned when Cinderpelt gave Leafpool her full name. Is this another hint that Leafpool is Jayfeather’s mother?
I also find it very interesting that Leafpool chose “feather” as the last part of Jaypaw’s name. It certainly sounds to me like she’s naming him after Crowfeather, and I can’t see why she’d do that unless she’s naming her son after his father.
It’s also interesting to note that the “feather” name suffix has only been used twice in the main series, for Crowfeather and Owlwhisker. The Erins changed Owlwhisker’s name so that Crowfeather’s would be more unique and meaningful. Why would they use it again, if not to hint at a connection between Jayfeather and Crowfeather?
Section III: Evidence that Hollypaw is Leafpool's Kit[/b]
3A.In The Sight, when Hollykit asks if she can be Leafpool’s apprentice, she says ”I have something important to ask you.” Leafpool’s reaction to the question is quite interesting to me.
From The Sight, page 78-
I don’t see any reason why such a simple question would alarm her, unless she was afraid that Hollykit had figured out the truth.
3B. This quote from The Sight mentions that Hollypaw is very fast, a trait that WindClan cats display.
From The Sight, page 167-
She notices that Leafpool looks surprised by her speed, and wonders if she was meant to be faster than her mentor. That indicates that Hollypaw’s speed is something that sets her apart from her Clanmates. Could her incredible speed be due to her having WindClan blood?
3C. In The Sight, Leafpool mentions that she wants to watch Hollypaw fight in the Daylight Gathering competitions.
From The Sight, page 345-
It seems strange to me that she only wants to watch Hollypaw. If she just wanted to watch her sister's kits compete, it seems like she would have mentioned Lionpaw as well.
3D. In Dark River, Hollypaw goes missing. From the time she disappears to the time she returns, there are several instances of Leafpool acting very worried, sometimes to the point where Jaypaw thinks she acts more worried than Squirrelflight.
Here are the quotes from the book, in page order.
From Dark River, page 211-
I don’t see any reason for Leafpool to freak out like that. Yes, Hollypaw is (supposedly) her niece, and she was Leafpool’s apprentice at one time, but it seems very odd to me that she would act more worried than the cat who is supposedly Hollypaw’s mother.
Later on in Dark River, Lionpaw tells Leafpool that WindClan, who was suspected of kidnapping Hollypaw, didn't take her. Leafpool then replies, in a desperate tone, "Then where is she?" Again, I don’t see why she should be so desperate to find out where Hollypaw is, unless there is more of a relationship between them than we know. Here's the full passage:
From Dark River, page 237-
And then when Hollypaw finally returns from RiverClan, it’s mentioned that Leafpool looks troubled. Perhaps because she was so worried about her daughter? Here is the exact quote from the book.
From Dark River, page 254-
Further on in the same passage, Leafpool scolds Hollypaw in a “suddenly fierce” tone, and Hollypaw thinks that Leafpool sounds like her mother.
Leafpool certainly sounds to me like a mother scolding her kit, and I can’t see her acting that way if she were just scolding her niece or former apprentice.
3E. At Hollypaw, Lionpaw, and Cinderpaw's warrior ceremony in Eclipse, Jaypaw notices Leafpool watching and purring with happiness.
From Eclipse, page 315-
I’m sure she is happy for Cinderpaw to finally be receiving her name, but could her happiness also be partly because she’s watching her daughter receive a warrior name?
3F. Hollypaw’s warrior name is Hollyleaf, which I think is a hint that she is Leafpool’s daughter. I don’t consider this to be the strongest evidence, though, because I don’t think Firestar knows the truth. And even if he does, I can’t see him honoring Leafpool for breaking the warrior code by naming her daughter after her.
3G. When Leafpool is stressed out during the greencough outbreak in Long Shadows, Hollyleaf offers her some comforting words, telling her she is a great medicine cat. I found Leafpool’s response very interesting.
Here is the quote from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 137-
Why would the opinion of one cat, especially one so young, mean so much to Leafpool? And not only does Hollyleaf's opinion seem to be very important to her, but she also acts kind of motherly toward Hollyleaf, telling her to eat and keep her strength up.
From The Sight, page 78-
As soon as Jaykit had disappeared through the brambles, Leafpool sat down. “Now,” she meowed, gazing at Hollykit, “tell me what's troubling you.”
“Nothing's troubling me,” Hollykit answered at once. “But I have something important to ask you.”
A look close to alarm flashed momentarily across Leafpool's gaze. “What?”
I don’t see any reason why such a simple question would alarm her, unless she was afraid that Hollykit had figured out the truth.
3B. This quote from The Sight mentions that Hollypaw is very fast, a trait that WindClan cats display.
From The Sight, page 167-
With lightning speed, she swerved the other way. Leafpool didn’t have a chance to rebalance herself, and she slammed down a mouse-length away from where Hollypaw flashed by.
Hollypaw felt a rush of triumph as she reached the sapling and spun around to see Leafpool blinking in surprise. Then a prick of guilt jabbed her. Was she meant to be faster than her mentor?
She notices that Leafpool looks surprised by her speed, and wonders if she was meant to be faster than her mentor. That indicates that Hollypaw’s speed is something that sets her apart from her Clanmates. Could her incredible speed be due to her having WindClan blood?
3C. In The Sight, Leafpool mentions that she wants to watch Hollypaw fight in the Daylight Gathering competitions.
From The Sight, page 345-
"I should be at the Gathering in case there are injuries," the medicine cat announced. "Besides, I want to go and watch Hollypaw fight. Why don't you come with me?"
It seems strange to me that she only wants to watch Hollypaw. If she just wanted to watch her sister's kits compete, it seems like she would have mentioned Lionpaw as well.
3D. In Dark River, Hollypaw goes missing. From the time she disappears to the time she returns, there are several instances of Leafpool acting very worried, sometimes to the point where Jaypaw thinks she acts more worried than Squirrelflight.
Here are the quotes from the book, in page order.
From Dark River, page 211-
He felt Leafpool's paw pressing him. "You must try to dream!" she meowed. "You have to find out where she is!"
Her urgent plea set his fur bristling with indignitation. Not so long ago she'd begged him to keep his dreams a secret; now she wanted him to use them to find Hollypaw. Was this all he was to her? A quick way to get answers from StarClan when she wanted them, and a danger to the Clan when she didn't?
"Please!"
"I'm not tired!" Jaypaw objected. "I can't just dream when I like."
"Just close your eyes and try," Leafpool begged.
"I'll dream when I'm ready!" he snapped.
He padded toward the entrance and felt Leafpool's pelt brush against his. She was blocking the way!
"You have to try now!" Leafpool hissed.
Jaypaw’s pelt bristled. "But she's probably just gone off by herself for a bit." What was wrong with Leafpool? She sounded more worried than Squirrelflight!
I don’t see any reason for Leafpool to freak out like that. Yes, Hollypaw is (supposedly) her niece, and she was Leafpool’s apprentice at one time, but it seems very odd to me that she would act more worried than the cat who is supposedly Hollypaw’s mother.
Later on in Dark River, Lionpaw tells Leafpool that WindClan, who was suspected of kidnapping Hollypaw, didn't take her. Leafpool then replies, in a desperate tone, "Then where is she?" Again, I don’t see why she should be so desperate to find out where Hollypaw is, unless there is more of a relationship between them than we know. Here's the full passage:
From Dark River, page 237-
"Any news of Hollypaw?"
"We didn't get a chance to ask." Brook admitted.
Leafpool sighed. "I suppose not," she meowed. "I was just hoping they might have given something away."
"WindClan hasn't got her," Lionpaw announced.
Leafpool pricked her ears. "How do you know?"
Lionpaw stared at the ground. "Well, surely, they would have told us if they had?" He glanced up at Leafpool. "Why else would they have her?"
"Then where is she?" Leafpool's mew sounded desperate.
And then when Hollypaw finally returns from RiverClan, it’s mentioned that Leafpool looks troubled. Perhaps because she was so worried about her daughter? Here is the exact quote from the book.
From Dark River, page 254-
Leafpool was staring at her with troubled eyes. “I’m glad you’re safe.”
Further on in the same passage, Leafpool scolds Hollypaw in a “suddenly fierce” tone, and Hollypaw thinks that Leafpool sounds like her mother.
”Don’t do it again.” Leafpool’s mew was suddenly fierce.
Hollypaw bristled. You sound like my mother!
Leafpool certainly sounds to me like a mother scolding her kit, and I can’t see her acting that way if she were just scolding her niece or former apprentice.
3E. At Hollypaw, Lionpaw, and Cinderpaw's warrior ceremony in Eclipse, Jaypaw notices Leafpool watching and purring with happiness.
From Eclipse, page 315-
Squirrelflight was shining with happiness. Leafpool sat beside her, a purr rumbling in her throat. She must be happy for Cinderpaw, thought Jaypaw.
I’m sure she is happy for Cinderpaw to finally be receiving her name, but could her happiness also be partly because she’s watching her daughter receive a warrior name?
3F. Hollypaw’s warrior name is Hollyleaf, which I think is a hint that she is Leafpool’s daughter. I don’t consider this to be the strongest evidence, though, because I don’t think Firestar knows the truth. And even if he does, I can’t see him honoring Leafpool for breaking the warrior code by naming her daughter after her.
3G. When Leafpool is stressed out during the greencough outbreak in Long Shadows, Hollyleaf offers her some comforting words, telling her she is a great medicine cat. I found Leafpool’s response very interesting.
Here is the quote from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 137-
Hollyleaf couldn't remember ever seeing Leafpool so full of doubt, so frightened for her Clanmates. She pressed her muzzle into the fur on the medicine cat's shoulder. "You're a great medicine cat, Leafpool. I know every cat will be fine with you to take care of them."
"It means a lot to me, hearing you say that." Leafpool's amber gaze was fixed on Hollyleaf. "I just wish it was true." She straightened up and gave her pelt a little shake. "Go and get something to eat. You need to keep your strength up, or you'll get sick, too."
Why would the opinion of one cat, especially one so young, mean so much to Leafpool? And not only does Hollyleaf's opinion seem to be very important to her, but she also acts kind of motherly toward Hollyleaf, telling her to eat and keep her strength up.
Section IV: Evidence that Both are Leafpool's Kits[/b]
4A: Both Jaypaw and Hollypaw have similar coloring to Crowfeather, or Crowfeather's family. I’ll admit that this isn't the strongest piece of evidence, as the Erins don’t really pay much attention to having kits look like their parents and there could very well be cats in either Squirrelflight or Brambleclaw's lineage that have a similar appearance, but I do think it's something to consider.
4B. In Eclipse, Lionpaw asks Hollypaw if Jaypaw can read her thoughts. The way Lionpaw words his question indicates that Jaypaw has never read his thoughts, like there's a connection between Jaypaw and Hollypaw that isn't there between Jaypaw and Lionpaw. Here is the passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 16-
4B. In Eclipse, Lionpaw asks Hollypaw if Jaypaw can read her thoughts. The way Lionpaw words his question indicates that Jaypaw has never read his thoughts, like there's a connection between Jaypaw and Hollypaw that isn't there between Jaypaw and Lionpaw. Here is the passage from the book.
From Eclipse, page 16-
"Perhaps each of us will feel the power differently," he ventured. "Jaypaw can already tell what cats are thinking, can't he?" He caught Hollypaw's eye. "He does it to you, right?"
Section V: Arguments and Rebuttal[/size][/b]
Arguments are in bold purple, and my rebuttals are in black.
The description for the Power of Three series says: "Hollypaw, Jaypaw, and Lionpaw spring from a strong legacy: children of Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw, two of the noblest ThunderClan warriors, and grandchildren of the great leader Firestar himself." The family tree on the official Warriors website also say that all three of them are Squirrelflight’s kits. Why would the Erins lie to us?
There’s a couple rebuttals for this. First, the revelation that one or more of the kits is Leafpool’s would be a very large part of the plot. The summaries wouldn’t reveal such a big spoiler.
Second, the series is told from the viewpoints of the three kits. As far as they know, they are Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw’s children. There’s no reason for the summaries to say differently until the truth is revealed to the kits.
Third, the family trees only show the cats as they stand at the end of the first book of each series, to avoid spoilers. The one for TPoT covers The Sight, and as far as is confirmed by the end of that book, the three are Squirrelflight’s kits.
Tigerstar meets with Jaypaw in a dream, very much like he did with Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost. We all know that Tigerstar is only interested in meeting with his kin, so he wouldn’t want anything to do with Jaypaw if he were Leafpool and Crowfeather’s kit. At one point during their meeting, Tigerstar even says something about Jaypaw being his kin. Why would Tigerstar treat Jaypaw as his kin if he isn’t?
Jaypaw has only seen Tigerstar once, and that wasn't the typical "Tigerstar appearance" routine. Jaypaw found his way into the PoNS and Tigerstar called to him. Whereas the usual scenario is Tigerstar appears to his kin; he goes to them, they don't find him like Jaypaw did.
As for Tigerstar flat-out saying, later on during their meeting, that Jaypaw is his kin, it's possible that Tigerstar knows full well that Jaypaw isn't his kin, but pretends that he is to get Jaypaw to trust him. After all, Jaypaw has a unique ability, and that could be used to help Tigerstar with his “take over the forest” schemes.
Wouldn't Leafpool's Clanmates have noticed that she was pregnant?
If the theory is true and that line in Sunset about Leafpool looking plump was foreshadowing her having kits, then the rest of the Clan did notice. They just attributed her plumpness to the fact that freshkill was plentiful. Like I said above, if she only had one or two kits, especially if they were small like Jaypaw and Hollypaw are described to be, she wouldn't have looked much more than plump.
If Leafpool was able to hide her plump belly because prey was plentiful, how was she able to hide her scent from the rest of the Clan? Doesn’t a queen’s scent change when she is expecting kits?
It's possible that only medicine cats are able to distinguish the scent change. I don’t recall it ever being mentioned outside of a medicine cat's viewpoint. If only medicine cats can distinguish the change of scent, then the rest of ThunderClan wouldn’t have noticed that Leafpool smelled different than she normally did.
It's also possible that the scent of the herbs in the medicine den disguised her queen-scent. She spends most of her time in the den, and her fur would likely absorb the scent of the herbs around her.
For this to work out, Leafpool would have had to mate with Crowfeather when they ran away together, and she would have given birth before the end of Sunset.
Not necessarily. Sunset picks up right where Twilight left off, and isn't that long, time-wise. I figure it covers about two moons, which would be equal to 8 weeks. Cats normally carry their kits for about 9 weeks before giving birth, but I've seen some cats carry them for 10. If Leafpool mated with Crowfeather before returning home at the end of Twilight, it's completely plausible that her kits weren't born until right after the end of Sunset.
Squirrelflight wouldn't be able to claim Leafpool's kits without the rest of the clan immediately becoming suspicious, as Leafpool's kits would be noticeably older than Squirrelflight's.
Not necessarily. I seem to remember reading that Squirrelflight kitted early, so assuming they got pregnant within two weeks of each other, it's not impossible that they would kit within a day or two of each other.
Squirrelflight and Leafpool have a "twin telepathy" kind of bond, so if one of them went into labor, it's possible that her pain triggered her sister to go into labor as well, thus both cats having their kits quite close together. If this happened, the two litters would be close enough in age to be passed as littermates.
I once had three litters of kits born within one week, so it is possible.
Jaypaw is a light gray tabby, and Hollypaw is black. They don’t look like Crowfeather or Leafpool, so they can't be their kits.
Technically, by that logic, they couldn’t be Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw’s either. Squirrelflight is ginger and Brambleclaw is a dark brown tabby. :bracken:
Pelt color and markings don't have to come from the kit's parents. They can also come from other close relatives, such as grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc. Leafpool herself is an example of this. Her parents, Sandstorm and Firestar, are both ginger, but she is a pale brown tabby with white paws, very much like Firestar's sister Princess.
The "kin of your kin" prophecy says that the three with the power are kin of both Firestar and Tigerstar, which means that the three have to be Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's kits. If Jaypaw and/or Hollypaw were Leafpool's, the prophecy couldn't come true, as neither Leafpool nor Crowfeather has a blood connection to Tigerstar.
The prophecy doesn't say anything at all about Tigerstar, just that the three with the power are kin of Firestar's kin. If Jaypaw and/or Hollypaw were Leafpool’s kits, they would still fit the prophecy perfectly, as Leafpool is Firestar’s daughter.
If one or more of the kits were Leafpool's, they would have Leafpool's scent rather than Squirrelflight's. Leafpool's secret would have been given away immediately by the kits' scent!
[/b]There’s a couple rebuttals for this. First, the revelation that one or more of the kits is Leafpool’s would be a very large part of the plot. The summaries wouldn’t reveal such a big spoiler.
Second, the series is told from the viewpoints of the three kits. As far as they know, they are Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw’s children. There’s no reason for the summaries to say differently until the truth is revealed to the kits.
Third, the family trees only show the cats as they stand at the end of the first book of each series, to avoid spoilers. The one for TPoT covers The Sight, and as far as is confirmed by the end of that book, the three are Squirrelflight’s kits.
Tigerstar meets with Jaypaw in a dream, very much like he did with Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost. We all know that Tigerstar is only interested in meeting with his kin, so he wouldn’t want anything to do with Jaypaw if he were Leafpool and Crowfeather’s kit. At one point during their meeting, Tigerstar even says something about Jaypaw being his kin. Why would Tigerstar treat Jaypaw as his kin if he isn’t?
Jaypaw has only seen Tigerstar once, and that wasn't the typical "Tigerstar appearance" routine. Jaypaw found his way into the PoNS and Tigerstar called to him. Whereas the usual scenario is Tigerstar appears to his kin; he goes to them, they don't find him like Jaypaw did.
As for Tigerstar flat-out saying, later on during their meeting, that Jaypaw is his kin, it's possible that Tigerstar knows full well that Jaypaw isn't his kin, but pretends that he is to get Jaypaw to trust him. After all, Jaypaw has a unique ability, and that could be used to help Tigerstar with his “take over the forest” schemes.
Wouldn't Leafpool's Clanmates have noticed that she was pregnant?
If the theory is true and that line in Sunset about Leafpool looking plump was foreshadowing her having kits, then the rest of the Clan did notice. They just attributed her plumpness to the fact that freshkill was plentiful. Like I said above, if she only had one or two kits, especially if they were small like Jaypaw and Hollypaw are described to be, she wouldn't have looked much more than plump.
If Leafpool was able to hide her plump belly because prey was plentiful, how was she able to hide her scent from the rest of the Clan? Doesn’t a queen’s scent change when she is expecting kits?
It's possible that only medicine cats are able to distinguish the scent change. I don’t recall it ever being mentioned outside of a medicine cat's viewpoint. If only medicine cats can distinguish the change of scent, then the rest of ThunderClan wouldn’t have noticed that Leafpool smelled different than she normally did.
It's also possible that the scent of the herbs in the medicine den disguised her queen-scent. She spends most of her time in the den, and her fur would likely absorb the scent of the herbs around her.
For this to work out, Leafpool would have had to mate with Crowfeather when they ran away together, and she would have given birth before the end of Sunset.
Not necessarily. Sunset picks up right where Twilight left off, and isn't that long, time-wise. I figure it covers about two moons, which would be equal to 8 weeks. Cats normally carry their kits for about 9 weeks before giving birth, but I've seen some cats carry them for 10. If Leafpool mated with Crowfeather before returning home at the end of Twilight, it's completely plausible that her kits weren't born until right after the end of Sunset.
Squirrelflight wouldn't be able to claim Leafpool's kits without the rest of the clan immediately becoming suspicious, as Leafpool's kits would be noticeably older than Squirrelflight's.
Not necessarily. I seem to remember reading that Squirrelflight kitted early, so assuming they got pregnant within two weeks of each other, it's not impossible that they would kit within a day or two of each other.
Squirrelflight and Leafpool have a "twin telepathy" kind of bond, so if one of them went into labor, it's possible that her pain triggered her sister to go into labor as well, thus both cats having their kits quite close together. If this happened, the two litters would be close enough in age to be passed as littermates.
I once had three litters of kits born within one week, so it is possible.
Jaypaw is a light gray tabby, and Hollypaw is black. They don’t look like Crowfeather or Leafpool, so they can't be their kits.
Technically, by that logic, they couldn’t be Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw’s either. Squirrelflight is ginger and Brambleclaw is a dark brown tabby. :bracken:
Pelt color and markings don't have to come from the kit's parents. They can also come from other close relatives, such as grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc. Leafpool herself is an example of this. Her parents, Sandstorm and Firestar, are both ginger, but she is a pale brown tabby with white paws, very much like Firestar's sister Princess.
The "kin of your kin" prophecy says that the three with the power are kin of both Firestar and Tigerstar, which means that the three have to be Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's kits. If Jaypaw and/or Hollypaw were Leafpool's, the prophecy couldn't come true, as neither Leafpool nor Crowfeather has a blood connection to Tigerstar.
The prophecy doesn't say anything at all about Tigerstar, just that the three with the power are kin of Firestar's kin. If Jaypaw and/or Hollypaw were Leafpool’s kits, they would still fit the prophecy perfectly, as Leafpool is Firestar’s daughter.
If one or more of the kits were Leafpool's, they would have Leafpool's scent rather than Squirrelflight's. Leafpool's secret would have been given away immediately by the kits' scent!
That's not necessarily true. If the kits were brought back to camp immediately after birth, then yes, the scent would have given the secret away. But it is possible for kits to adapt another queen’s scent if they are left with her long enough.
Jaypaw’s memory of traveling through the snow indicates that Squirrelflight and the kits stayed outside the camp for at least a week; it’s not likely that he would have remembered the journey if he’d been any younger.
If that timeframe is right, any kits that were Leafpool's would have had plenty of time to adapt Squirrelflight's scent.
In the After Sunset play, Leafpool seems to be trying to tell Crowfeather that she is expecting his kits. But in the same play, Crowfeather mentions that Nightcloud had his kits last moon. If that's true, then Breezepaw is older than Jaypaw and Hollypaw. Therefore, Jaypaw and Hollypaw cannot be Leafpool's kits. The timing doesn’t fit.
We don’t know exactly when the After Sunset play takes place, just that it’s sometime after Sunset. That would be after the three were born. They were five-and-a-half moons old when we meet them in The Sight, so they would have been born right after the end of Sunset, whether they’re Leafpool’s or Squirrelflight’s. So the timing does fit.[/spoiler]
Section VI: Confirmation and New Questions[/size][/b]
The Theory Confirmed? (Long Shadows Spoilers)
After reading Long Shadows, it looks like this theory has been confirmed to be true. And it’s looking like all three are Leafpool’s.
There is a scene at the end of the book where Ashfur corners Squirrelflight and the three. He tells Squirrelflight that, in an effort to make her feel as much pain as he did when she broke up with him, he is going to make her watch her kits die. Squirrelflight responds by telling him that they aren’t her kits.
From Long Shadows, page 276-
While it’s not directly stated anywhere in Long Shadows that Leafpool is their mother, we now have fairly concrete proof that they’re not Squirrelflight’s, and I think that this also counts as proof that they, or at least some of them, are Leafpool’s. The reason I say the revelation in Long Shadows is “fairly concrete proof” is because of the circumstances under which the secret was revealed, and because I still have doubts about Lionblaze being Leafpool’s.
There is a scene at the end of the book where Ashfur corners Squirrelflight and the three. He tells Squirrelflight that, in an effort to make her feel as much pain as he did when she broke up with him, he is going to make her watch her kits die. Squirrelflight responds by telling him that they aren’t her kits.
From Long Shadows, page 276-
”If you really want to hurt me, you’ll have to find a better way than that,” Squirrelflight snarled. “They are not my kits.”
The noise of the storm and the fire faded and the only sound Jayfeather could hear was the blood roaring in his ears. He shook his head, straining to hear what Squirrelflight and Ashfur said next, cursing the blindness that hid their expressions from him.
“You’re lying.” Ashfur’s voice was choked with disbelief.
“No, I’m not.” Squirrelflight spoke softly, but her intensity pierced through the crackle of the flames. “Did you see me give birth? Did I nurse them? Stay in the nursery until they were apprenticed? No.”
“But- I” Ashfur began, then fell silent. Jayfeather could almost hear the paws of memory racing through his mind.
“I fooled all of you, even Brambleclaw,” Squirrelflight went on scornfully. “They are not mine.”
While it’s not directly stated anywhere in Long Shadows that Leafpool is their mother, we now have fairly concrete proof that they’re not Squirrelflight’s, and I think that this also counts as proof that they, or at least some of them, are Leafpool’s. The reason I say the revelation in Long Shadows is “fairly concrete proof” is because of the circumstances under which the secret was revealed, and because I still have doubts about Lionblaze being Leafpool’s.
Lionblaze is Leafpool’s too? (Long Shadows Spoilers)
As I mentioned above, I personally still believe it’s only Jayfeather and Hollyleaf that are Leafpool’s, despite the revelation in Long Shadows. There was hardly any evidence in the books prior to Long Shadows that indicated that Lionblaze was hers. And there are so many things that, in my opinion, don’t add up if all three kits are Leafpool’s.
Here are my arguments against Lionblaze being Leafpool’s.
1: Leafpool’s Size- Leafpool has been described throughout the series as a small, slender cat. If she were carrying two kits, it’s plausible that her pregnancy have been mistaken as plumpness because freshkill was plentiful. This idea is backed up by the fact that Jayfeather and Hollyleaf are both described as on the small side. But I don’t see any way, based on her size, that she could have hidden the fact that she were carrying three kits.
A three-kit pregnancy could be hidden; we know that because Yellowfang managed it. But it would depend very heavily on the size of the mother cat. I don't recall any mention of Yellowfang being small and slender like Leafpool is. If she's larger-framed, it'd be much easier for her to hide her pregnancy.
On a small cat, however, it would be very, very difficult to hide the fact that she was carrying three kits. I had a she-cat who had the same body type that Leafpool is described as having. She ended up getting pregnant with three kits, and it was extremely obvious that she was expecting, even early on. All three of her kits were quite small-framed, like their mother, but the mother looked like she'd swallowed a soccer ball while she was pregnant.
And this doesn’t directly relate to Leafpool, but I do think it’s worth mentioning, as it offers a canon idea of what a cat Leafpool’s size would look like while carrying three kits. Look at Millie. She was described in the allegiances of The Sight as a “small silver tabby.” So she has a similar body type to Leafpool.
Millie was described as huge several times during her pregnancy, and we know she had three kits. If she has the same build as Leafpool and was described as “huge” while carrying the same size litter that evidence in Long Shadows suggests Leafpool did, it seems like Leafpool would also have looked huge while she was pregnant.
I just don’t see any way Leafpool could have hidden the fact that she was carrying three kits. Some cat would have noticed.
2: No Kits for Squirrelflight- If all three of the kits are Leafpool’s, then that means that Squirrelflight was never pregnant. I just can’t see a cat being able to completely fake a pregnancy. Maybe at first, before she would have started showing, but as she got closer to her supposed due date it seems like her Clanmates would have noticed that she wasn’t getting any bigger.
It’s possible that Leafpool announced that Squirrelflight was pregnant, and that the rest of the Clan just didn’t see any reason to doubt what she said. After all, she’s a medicine cat. But still, it seems like they would have started getting suspicious toward the end of Squirrelflight's supposed pregnancy. Even though she's described as a fairly stocky cat, she should have gotten at least a bit bigger than normal if she were pregnant.
Unless Squirrelflight did have a litter of her own and they all died, thus allowing her to “adopt” Leafpool’s kits and claim them as her own. But somehow, I can’t see the Erins killing an entire litter of kits. I don’t recall any instance where the entire litter died as kits; there’s always at least one kit that makes it to apprenticeship (and usually beyond).
3: Kit Scent and Milk Scent- If Squirrelflight never had kits of her own, as Long Shadows suggests, how did she manage to keep the three kits alive until they were strong enough to return to ThunderClan? They couldn’t have gone more than a couple of hours without food.
If they’re all Leafpool’s kits, Leafpool would have had to feed them during the time they were outside, which I’m estimating was at least a week. Jayfeather remembered traveling through snow as a very small kit, and I don’t think he would have remembered it if he were less than a week old.
If Leafpool was the one who nursed them, a few problems come up.
First, the kits would have had Leafpool’s scent when they were brought home. This wouldn’t be a problem if they had been nursed by Squirrelflight, because they would have adapted her scent and been passable as her kits. Adapting a new scent would take several days, and would require the kits to have very little interaction with Leafpool.
The problem is, newborn kits nurse very frequently, and if Leafpool was the one feeding them, there’s no way they would have had enough time to adapt Squirrelflight’s scent enough to avoid suspicion.
Leafpool’s scent on the kits could, plausibly, be explained by saying that she had shared a den with her sister and the kits while they were outside, but then there’s the fact that Leafpool would have been producing milk when she returned home. It takes time for a queen’s milk supply to dry up, and it only dries up if the cat doesn’t allow her kits to nurse for quite some time.
Even if Leafpool did manage to somehow hide the fact that she was producing milk, I don’t see any way she could have hidden or convincingly explained away the scent of it. It would have been quite a lot stronger on Leafpool than on Squirrelflight, and I just can’t see the rest of the Clan not noticing.
4: Tigerstar’s Training- In a recently released excerpt from Sunrise, Tigerstar mentions that he knew all along that Lionblaze wasn’t Brambleclaw’s son, and therefore not his kin. However, in the past, Tigerstar has only been interested in training his own kin. Why would he have an interest in Lionblaze if he knew they weren’t related?
There was nothing really special about Lionblaze when he started training with Tigerstar, nothing that would have singled him out as a cat that Tigerstar thought was worth training even though he wasn't related to him.
And it can't be because of Lionblaze's powers, because he didn't have an obvious power when he started the special training. Not only that, but Tigerstar dismissed the idea of the Three even having powers in the first place.
5: Lionblaze’s Body Type and Coloring- Lionblaze is described as a fairly large, muscular cat with broad shoulders, all traits that Tigerstar, Brambleclaw, and Hawkfrost share. Where did those traits come from if he isn’t Brambleclaw’s son?
Leafpool and Crowfeather are both small, and there doesn’t appear to be any large, muscular cats in either of their family trees. If the two of them really are Lionblaze’s parents, I don’t see where he would have gotten those traits.
I don't recall any mention of Firestar or Sandstorm being exceptionally large and muscular. While it's true that we don't know their family history, it seems like, if there were muscular cats somewhere along the line, the trait would have been passed down to their kits.
We know Leafpool is small, and while Squirrelflight is described as larger than her sister, there’s nothing to indicate that she is exceptionally muscular. So it doesn’t look like Leafpool’s family carries those traits. The same applies to Crowfeather. WindClan cats are small and lean, and there’s no indication that Crowfeather has larger cats in his family history.
I also think this is worth noting. It was mentioned in Long Shadows that Tawnypelt’s son Tigerpaw looks very similar to Lionblaze. Tigerpaw obviously got his coloring from Tigerstar, through Tawnypelt. Why would it be specifically mentioned that Lionblaze looks so much like Tigerpaw if he is Leafpool’s?
Here’s the quote from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 84-
Here are my arguments against Lionblaze being Leafpool’s.
1: Leafpool’s Size- Leafpool has been described throughout the series as a small, slender cat. If she were carrying two kits, it’s plausible that her pregnancy have been mistaken as plumpness because freshkill was plentiful. This idea is backed up by the fact that Jayfeather and Hollyleaf are both described as on the small side. But I don’t see any way, based on her size, that she could have hidden the fact that she were carrying three kits.
A three-kit pregnancy could be hidden; we know that because Yellowfang managed it. But it would depend very heavily on the size of the mother cat. I don't recall any mention of Yellowfang being small and slender like Leafpool is. If she's larger-framed, it'd be much easier for her to hide her pregnancy.
On a small cat, however, it would be very, very difficult to hide the fact that she was carrying three kits. I had a she-cat who had the same body type that Leafpool is described as having. She ended up getting pregnant with three kits, and it was extremely obvious that she was expecting, even early on. All three of her kits were quite small-framed, like their mother, but the mother looked like she'd swallowed a soccer ball while she was pregnant.
And this doesn’t directly relate to Leafpool, but I do think it’s worth mentioning, as it offers a canon idea of what a cat Leafpool’s size would look like while carrying three kits. Look at Millie. She was described in the allegiances of The Sight as a “small silver tabby.” So she has a similar body type to Leafpool.
Millie was described as huge several times during her pregnancy, and we know she had three kits. If she has the same build as Leafpool and was described as “huge” while carrying the same size litter that evidence in Long Shadows suggests Leafpool did, it seems like Leafpool would also have looked huge while she was pregnant.
I just don’t see any way Leafpool could have hidden the fact that she was carrying three kits. Some cat would have noticed.
2: No Kits for Squirrelflight- If all three of the kits are Leafpool’s, then that means that Squirrelflight was never pregnant. I just can’t see a cat being able to completely fake a pregnancy. Maybe at first, before she would have started showing, but as she got closer to her supposed due date it seems like her Clanmates would have noticed that she wasn’t getting any bigger.
It’s possible that Leafpool announced that Squirrelflight was pregnant, and that the rest of the Clan just didn’t see any reason to doubt what she said. After all, she’s a medicine cat. But still, it seems like they would have started getting suspicious toward the end of Squirrelflight's supposed pregnancy. Even though she's described as a fairly stocky cat, she should have gotten at least a bit bigger than normal if she were pregnant.
Unless Squirrelflight did have a litter of her own and they all died, thus allowing her to “adopt” Leafpool’s kits and claim them as her own. But somehow, I can’t see the Erins killing an entire litter of kits. I don’t recall any instance where the entire litter died as kits; there’s always at least one kit that makes it to apprenticeship (and usually beyond).
3: Kit Scent and Milk Scent- If Squirrelflight never had kits of her own, as Long Shadows suggests, how did she manage to keep the three kits alive until they were strong enough to return to ThunderClan? They couldn’t have gone more than a couple of hours without food.
If they’re all Leafpool’s kits, Leafpool would have had to feed them during the time they were outside, which I’m estimating was at least a week. Jayfeather remembered traveling through snow as a very small kit, and I don’t think he would have remembered it if he were less than a week old.
If Leafpool was the one who nursed them, a few problems come up.
First, the kits would have had Leafpool’s scent when they were brought home. This wouldn’t be a problem if they had been nursed by Squirrelflight, because they would have adapted her scent and been passable as her kits. Adapting a new scent would take several days, and would require the kits to have very little interaction with Leafpool.
The problem is, newborn kits nurse very frequently, and if Leafpool was the one feeding them, there’s no way they would have had enough time to adapt Squirrelflight’s scent enough to avoid suspicion.
Leafpool’s scent on the kits could, plausibly, be explained by saying that she had shared a den with her sister and the kits while they were outside, but then there’s the fact that Leafpool would have been producing milk when she returned home. It takes time for a queen’s milk supply to dry up, and it only dries up if the cat doesn’t allow her kits to nurse for quite some time.
Even if Leafpool did manage to somehow hide the fact that she was producing milk, I don’t see any way she could have hidden or convincingly explained away the scent of it. It would have been quite a lot stronger on Leafpool than on Squirrelflight, and I just can’t see the rest of the Clan not noticing.
4: Tigerstar’s Training- In a recently released excerpt from Sunrise, Tigerstar mentions that he knew all along that Lionblaze wasn’t Brambleclaw’s son, and therefore not his kin. However, in the past, Tigerstar has only been interested in training his own kin. Why would he have an interest in Lionblaze if he knew they weren’t related?
There was nothing really special about Lionblaze when he started training with Tigerstar, nothing that would have singled him out as a cat that Tigerstar thought was worth training even though he wasn't related to him.
And it can't be because of Lionblaze's powers, because he didn't have an obvious power when he started the special training. Not only that, but Tigerstar dismissed the idea of the Three even having powers in the first place.
5: Lionblaze’s Body Type and Coloring- Lionblaze is described as a fairly large, muscular cat with broad shoulders, all traits that Tigerstar, Brambleclaw, and Hawkfrost share. Where did those traits come from if he isn’t Brambleclaw’s son?
Leafpool and Crowfeather are both small, and there doesn’t appear to be any large, muscular cats in either of their family trees. If the two of them really are Lionblaze’s parents, I don’t see where he would have gotten those traits.
I don't recall any mention of Firestar or Sandstorm being exceptionally large and muscular. While it's true that we don't know their family history, it seems like, if there were muscular cats somewhere along the line, the trait would have been passed down to their kits.
We know Leafpool is small, and while Squirrelflight is described as larger than her sister, there’s nothing to indicate that she is exceptionally muscular. So it doesn’t look like Leafpool’s family carries those traits. The same applies to Crowfeather. WindClan cats are small and lean, and there’s no indication that Crowfeather has larger cats in his family history.
I also think this is worth noting. It was mentioned in Long Shadows that Tawnypelt’s son Tigerpaw looks very similar to Lionblaze. Tigerpaw obviously got his coloring from Tigerstar, through Tawnypelt. Why would it be specifically mentioned that Lionblaze looks so much like Tigerpaw if he is Leafpool’s?
Here’s the quote from the book.
From Long Shadows, page 84-
”Hey, I look like you, don’t I?” Tigerpaw interrupted, stretching out a paw to compare his golden pelt with Lionblaze’s. “That must be because we share kin.”
“That’s right,” Lionblaze mewed, giving the smaller cat’s ear a friendly lick. “Your mother and our father were littermates.”
Who’s the Father? (Long Shadows Spoilers)
There’s been some speculation, after Long Shadows, that Crowfeather isn’t the father of Leafpool’s kits, but that Ashfur was. Leafpool showed quite a lot of grief over Ashfur’s death, and Jayfeather wondered if perhaps she had been in love with him.
There is some evidence to support Ashfur being the father. Jayfeather is a gray tabby with blue eyes, which is quite similar to Ashfur’s description. Hollyleaf’s coloring, previously believed to have come from Crowfeather, could have come from Firestar’s relation to Scourge.
I personally don’t think there’s any way Ashfur could be the father, even if he did have a relationship with Leafpool. At the time the kits would have been conceived, Leafpool was in, or just coming out of, her relationship with Crowfeather. She had been willing to throw everything away for Crowfeather, and I can’t see her mating with another tom right after returning home.
I also think that, after ending her relationship with Crowfeather, Leafpool completely committed herself to being the best medicine cat she could be. She knew that she had broken her vow to StarClan by acting on her feelings, and it’s not likely that she would have jeopardized her position as ThunderClan’s medicine cat by breaking the medicine cat code for a second time and taken another mate.
In my opinion, Crowfeather is the only cat who could possibly have fathered Leafpool’s kits.
There is some evidence to support Ashfur being the father. Jayfeather is a gray tabby with blue eyes, which is quite similar to Ashfur’s description. Hollyleaf’s coloring, previously believed to have come from Crowfeather, could have come from Firestar’s relation to Scourge.
I personally don’t think there’s any way Ashfur could be the father, even if he did have a relationship with Leafpool. At the time the kits would have been conceived, Leafpool was in, or just coming out of, her relationship with Crowfeather. She had been willing to throw everything away for Crowfeather, and I can’t see her mating with another tom right after returning home.
I also think that, after ending her relationship with Crowfeather, Leafpool completely committed herself to being the best medicine cat she could be. She knew that she had broken her vow to StarClan by acting on her feelings, and it’s not likely that she would have jeopardized her position as ThunderClan’s medicine cat by breaking the medicine cat code for a second time and taken another mate.
In my opinion, Crowfeather is the only cat who could possibly have fathered Leafpool’s kits.
